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Longer Time Frames and the Patience that Pays Off

We trade Forex to make money. “Forex” is a good investment opportunity to increase your wealth. No doubt that everybody loves to make more money if possible. Novice traders start learning Forex while they already know that they can potentially make a lot of money through Forex. So they start with a lot of enthusiasm and confidence. They know that they will make money through Forex sooner than later. They are not worried about failure, because they have enough enthusiasm that motivates them, and so they know that they will make money through Forex trading definitely. Something that they are worried about is the amount of the money they will make. They know that forex works, but they want to make the most of it. And this mentality makes them get deviated from the right track and make mistakes.

“Greed” shows up even before you make any money through Forex, and while you are learning and demo trading. A limited amount of greed is good to motivate us, but it is a poison if it goes beyond that limit. It won’t let us make any money through trading.

Greed interferes through different ways. In novice traders it whispers that “You can make a lot of money through forex. Now that you are learning it, do it in a way that you can make as much money as possible.”

You will ask yourself how is it possible to maximize the amount of the money that I will make through forex?

The first answer that comes to your mind, is “taking more positions”. You think if you trade more, you will make more money.

Therefore, the second question comes to your mind: How can I trade more? How can I take as many positions as possible?

The answer is in the “time frames”. When the second question appears in your mind, most probably you have already learned about the time frames. You know what time frames are and what the differences of a short time frame like 5min is with a long time frame like daily. You know that you can have more trade setups with the shorter time frames like 5min, compared to long time frames like daily.

This is what you were looking for. You wanted to take more positions (trades), to make more money. In the novice traders’ mind, taking more positions equals making more money.

So you go for it. You focus on the short time frames like 5min and you become a day trader.

Do you see how “greed” makes you deviate from the right track?

Who says taking more positions equals making more money?

I have seen so many novice traders who focus even on 1min chart. You see how greedy some traders are?! They trade EUR/USD on one minute chart, because (1) EUR/USD spread is too low, and (2) one minute time frame forms several many trade setups every day.

Of course they are absolutely right. EUR/USD has a low spread and one minute time frame forms several trade setups within a short period of time. However, there is just one problem: They cannot make any money!

It is just wasting of time. Many novice traders spend several years working on the shorter time frames. They either give up on trading, or shift to the longer time frames finally. I have never seen even one successful day trader who can repeat his success consistently for a reasonable length of time. Some of them can make money for a limited time, but then they lose all they have made.

In this article, I don’t want to go to details that why you cannot make money trading the shorter time frames. What I am trying to say for now is that the probability of making money with shorter time frames is less than 0.01%. So don’t try it. A few winning positions doesn’t mean that it works.

Taking more positions through short time frames doesn’t equal making more money. It equals losing more money. It is not only that. There are more problems with the shorter time frames. You have to spend several hours at the computer every day. It has too much pressure and stress. It even hurts you physically in long term.

Trading doesn’t have to be that hard. Even if you can make money through shorter time frames, you should not do it, because there is an easier way to make money too. Why should we choose the harder way, while it is possible to do it through a much easier way?

Bottom line:

I know many of you want to be a day trader, because you think it makes more money. Everybody wants to make more money. There is nothing wrong with it. However, the problem is that you cannot make more money as a day trader who works with short time frames like 5min, 15min, or even 1hr. You can only lose money. I don’t trade even the 4hrs chart, because forex market has changed a lot, and even 4hrs chart is choppy most of the time and I cannot trust the trade setups it forms.

If you don’t listen to me and stop trading the shorter time frames now, you will have to do it one day, because you will also come to this conclusion that it doesn’t work, and it is wasting of time, energy and money. However, I hope you do it before you give up on forex trading, and before losing a lot of money and wasting a lot of time.

Working with the longer time frames needs more patience, but less energy, time and money. You should not allow your greed to make you work on something that doesn’t give any good result. You may have more trade setups with the shorter time frames, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it makes more money. Be patient enough to wait for strong setups on the long time frames. You will see that your patience will pay off: I Trade the Daily Chart, But I Am a Day Trader

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“Whether you think you can, or you think you cannot, you are right.” – Henry Ford



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39 thoughts on “Longer Time Frames and the Patience that Pays Off
  1. Thys says:

    I think I am my own worst enemy…..

  2. Gert says:

    I am going to try Bollinger Bands and candlesticks, just one question, must an formation happens on one of the bands, or just as long its an candlestick pattern?

  3. Sha says:

    Hi Mr.Chris,

    Will it be possible for you to share with us your weekly trades (weekly round-up of trades) and also reason out why you went into those trades? This will help us to learn better and also strongly influence the fact that there dont need to be too many trades every week – as i trust that you only enter the strongest of setups and i am not able to locate any this week but you might have and we could learn how you had analyzed the chart to enter the trade. I know there are many examples but weekly round up will be great help to those who follow your blog and trading methods.

    Thank you!

  4. Tom says:

    Hi Chris,
    1. can we use situation, if candle with body cross High BB, MACD confirm it, like on USDJPY now, and probably trend will continue, or it is to late for us ?
    2. If you look for example on USDCHF, 3 candles 15-18.8.2014 and 30.6.-7.2. are there morning star pattern? and is it strong signal for long?
    3. I think tomorrow we can find nice setup on AUDJPY for short, but second candle isnt close yet, we must wait.
    Thank you for your answers.

    • Chris says:

      1. It is too late to go long. The market is already overbought. Besides, where will set your stop loss if you enter now?

      2. I don’t know which candles you are talking about.

  5. ash says:

    when i finally decided to stop trading the short time frames (ticks, 1min, 5min) i felt like a total failure. my trading start was to look at 1h and 4h charts, and find ‘unusual’ (e.g against the preceding trend) price spikes that seemed to come out of nowhere. When these would exceed the BB (before the candle would close, and therefore before the BB was ‘fixed’ in place – but this still gave a good indication of totally overbought / oversold price) i would zoom in to use the short time frames (ticks to 5 min) to spot reversals and trade the price back into the 1hr or 4hr BBs.

    This worked quite well except for a few problems: the biggest problem is that i was unable to keep my emotions / self control in check. There was quite a lot of waiting (although i had a sound alert for cutting the BBs), and when the setups did happen, it all went very quickly. i was unable to maintain 100% control of my emotions / actions. Other problems of small time frames at price extremes (outside 1hr – 4hr BBs) = significant price gaps, choppy price, large and varying spreads. You don’t need a lot of mistakes / errors to lose a lot of money in those time frames.

    some people (e.g. me) just need to try out the lower time frames to understand the amount of emotional effort it takes – before realising that higher time frames are the easier way to go. i don’t regret doing it that way though, because its good learning to see the price action moving in real time on the smaller time frames – i think it provides a good perspective for learning – just don’t use real money…

  6. singh says:

    Hi Chris,

    The biggest problem with D1 or higher timeframe charts is risk management. E.g. with higher timeframe the fluctuations are usually in high number of pips. So let`s say if I have D1 chart for XAU/USD, and I am keeping a position for few days, even though I have opened the position in right side, my stop loss will trigger very soon because of the pips fluctuation. That is the reason most novice players go for short timeframe.

    Please advise

    • Chris says:

      Hi Singh, That is not a problem at all. Your stop loss can be triggered on any time frame too. Just because the price moves in a bigger scale on the daily and longer time frames, you can take smaller positions. If you take a one lot position on the 5min chart and set the stop loss to 20, you will lose $200 if it hits the stop loss. Similarly, when you want to take a position on the daily and you will have to set a 100 pips stop loss, then you have to take a 0.2 lot position. So you will lose $200 again if it hits the stop loss.

      You have to set the stop loss in a proper place technically, no matter what the time frame is. Just when the stop loss has a high pipage, you can take a smaller position accordingly.

  7. Ted says:

    Everything is sinking into my head and as I read more.. It’s all making sense and getting easier to understand. You spoke with a lot of passion in this article. I don’t think I’ll ever consider the shorter time frames ever after reading these articles. Thanks Chris. Awesome job done here!! I also can’t believe that I’ve wrapped my head around position sizing. I thought I could never understand it but your article on margin, leverage… did the trick. I’ve closed my demo account as l just used it to familiarise myself with the platform and how things work in general. Starting tomorrow, I’m demo trading with a new account and now that I understand the strategy well, I feel confident that I’ll grow this demo account.

    Thanks to you Chris and your buddies.

    Ted

    • Chris says:

      Hi Ted,

      Thank you for the kind words and the good news. I am happy that you got what I was trying to explain here. Now, demo trade patiently, watch your success, repeat your success, build your discipline, patience and confidence, and look at your own eyes in front of the mirror and say “Congratulations! You made it.”

      Don’t leave the right track. Good luck 🙂

  8. fawaz says:

    hi chris, yes my friend i just found out that long time frame is better for trading, as a matter of fact i do love ur strategy, daily time frame but i apply Fibonacci 1 hr and every time ABCD game over, i start anther game, it’s really great, i’m so happy with that, most time when i set my trade after midnight, seven o’clock morning i see the order activated and making good profit.

  9. Jerry Eng says:

    Chris, to ad an additional choice to “What Do You Think”:

    O “I have “Toyed Around” with the short time frames and confirmed that EVERYTHING Chris tells us about trading them is ABSOLUTELY true!!”. That’s me.

    Thank you!

  10. Bruce Wayne says:

    hi Chris .
    I am not sure you are a profitable trader, could you please publish your trading performance to mybook.com or https://www.mql5.com/en/signals ?

    • I will never disclose or share my accounts performance with the public. I am sorry.

      • Bruce Wayne says:

        Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach.
        People who are able to do something well can do that thing for a living, while people who are not able to do anything that well make a living by teaching.

        • 🙂

          Thank you wise-man! Was all these words by you or they are by another scientist or philosopher?

          So it is good that at least I am a good teacher. I feel sorry for those who neither “can do”, nor “can teach”.

          How do you make a living? By doing something well, teaching it, or you are still wondering what to do…?

          Hope you are feeling better now and you have emptied some of your inner pressures by saying those words. If you ever wanted to have a remedy, I am always ready do help. I have a psychology base.

          Good luck!

          P.S.

          I have never said anywhere on this site or any other site that I am profitable 🙂

          • Maria S says:

            Hi Chris,

            This may be off-topic but did you take psychology major at college? 😀

          • Maria,

            I have post-graduate in psychology from the university of “society” 🙂

          • Bruce Wayne says:

            https://www.luckscout.com/a- -trading-plan-limit-your-greed-and-make-53000-per-month-after-two-years/
            How long have you been trading ?
            Have you made-53000-per-month-after-two-years ?
            (I know you can not answers this question because you can not show the proof on mybook.com.)

            Is “teaching for living” easier than “trading for living” ? 😀

          • Bruce,

            Maybe you are right that teaching for a living is easier than trading for a living. But as you can see we are not making any living through teaching also. We are not charging people.

        • ssy says:

          Can anyone be more naive, taking cliché that has no connection to reality as truth?

          I wonder if you saw something wrong in the articles that prompted your original comment, and you fear others are being led astray?
          If so, please enlighten us as to what is wrong, if you can.

          Or, maybe you have spotted a scam somewhere in the making and you feel the need to warn others?
          Please alert us as to what the scam could be.

          If you think the info provided on this site is not worth your time or you are not satisfied in any way, feel free to go elsewhere.

          People stay because they feel they can learn something or pick up a few insights. Chris is not providing trading signals, only essential education for traders using actual market occurrences as examples. In that sense, his personal trading record has no bearing on the validity of the teaching provided on the site.

          Asking to see his trading record along with your smart-alecky comments achieves nothing and won’t change anyone’s mind.

          Meanwhile, it is clear Chris and his team have been focusing on the DT project for the club (as of March, 2017), so he obviously is only devoting a portion of his time to , making his trading records even more irrelevant.

  11. Md Shahinoor Rahman Shahin says:

    Thanks Chris

  12. Tyler Deaton says:

    Even though I was lucky enough to stumble upon your site soon after I began learning trading, I still decided to try to apply your trading system and others to the 15min, 1hr, and 4hr time frames…after a few successes and many more losses I have accepted that daily and weekly charts are the way to go, not only for profit, but also realizing that I don’t want trading to be like a full-time job for me like it is with many day traders. If I can be profitable from 1hr per day, why get more stressed and lose more time just to keep myself occupied with the smaller time frames? Thank you so much for sharing so much good knowledge for free!

  13. Ashish Thakrar says:

    You are right Chris…I have been trading for 2 years.N while trading with shorter timeframes we can make profit for some time..not constant. as we would be constant profitable trader..we have to move long timeframe. n it’s easy to take position too..thanks chris..

  14. Nadi brh says:

    Thank you Chris for the advices to make us profitable and sucessful traders. I have bookmarked your articles and read them everyday it has become my job to read your articles. You should hire me I think 😀

    Thank you so much

  15. drsa1970 says:

    You are always helpful Chris,…
    some inappropriate comments in this article made me a bit…,
    anyway, thanks Chris for sharing your valuable experience and information with us.

  16. AFRICKA EBRA says:

    CHRIS
    Hello,
    it is with great rigor that I evaluate myself
    30% of assimilation, understanding and knowledge
    Practice techniques, depending on your training
    on Fxkeys and Luckscout
    big thank you, because I lost my first mini live account of $ 500 increased to $ 1,200 due to bad placement of my stop loss
    I discovered by google your WebSite and now I’m 30% !
    I took that position only in the short time M30- H1
    after some training I subscribed paid in agency.
    now I practice a new Demo account since March 2016
    exclusively on the daily chart where a candle is equal to one day trend of my demo and is safe and no loss
    I subscriber membership account on here as Luckscout
    but I do not see the new posts of the day?
    I’m in the investigation of the archives, which already meets 100% to my questions and queries
    my study of Japanese candlesticks language increases
    Chris thank you and thank you also to KAMAL A.

  17. Ivan Todorov says:

    Hello Chris , i`m writing in this article because i truly need your experience and point of view about timeframes. If we skip my first steps in trading 2 years ago when i was using 15M time frame, I can say i strictly fallow your trading system on 1H. I had conversasion with high rated broker in my country and was told that most dealers,borkers working for banks using 4H timeframe in order to hold their position in longer period of time (days and even weeks).
    So I`m a little uncertain what should i do if i`ve position based on 4H and still hasn`t hit my target, but its the end of the week. Is it better to close it because there is possibility to open with weekend gap or some news could influence the direction while market is closed or should i keep it?
    Would you comment , metals and CFD.

    Thanks in advance!

  18. Charles Booth says:

    I was stubborn and had to find out the hard way about the shorter time frames. I opened a small $250.00 real account with a market maker broker. It wasn’t a complete waste of time because I pulled my money out shortly after losing about half of it, but it did make me realize that Chris was right about everything he says. He’s not out to get us that’s plain to see. So I humbly started over and now I can make profits on monthly basis. Thanks Chris for telling the truth about the industry Id like to see the general math on how much money you have actually saved people by doing this good work of yours!

    Charles

  19. ssy says:

    Most people actually don’t think of as a business; but rather, a get-rich-quick(er) scheme to get away from whatever their regular business(job) is. Hence we hear a lot of admonition about how traders should approach their trading as a business.

    is also not an investment since it doesn’t pay interests or dividents; and a account will not appreciate in value.

    is speculation, pure and simple. Therefore, only risk capital need apply.

    We all like instant gratification, and trading the shorter time frames like 1min or 5min is the ultimate in that regard. That’s one reason why many people are drawn to it.

  20. ssy says:

    Those who can, indeed trade; but only the really smart, teach.

    Well-known futures trader Larry Williams, and options trader Chuck Hughes, both have been selling seminars, courses and other services (read: teaching) for as long as I can remember. One would think these past trading champions should be able to make all their money in the markets; but no, they also try to profit from teaching others, to the point it is unclear if more of their wealth comes from trading or from people willing to shell out thousands to attend their courses and seminars.

    These successful traders know that making money in the markets requires constant hard work, entails a lot of risks and uncertainly that can keep one on ones toes at all times; whereas teaching is easy, consistent money with no drawdown.

    Maybe Chris is right after all when he points out that trading is difficult and only a few succeed in the end, and that we should start looking for something easier to make money, while trying to make it in.

    Whatever you do, however, don’t follow the cliché and rush out to try to teach when you can’t trade successfully, because you will need a proven track record of success if you don’t have trading credentials comparable to those of the two champions.